Return to Radiance with Danielle Venables

088. UNPOLISHED pt 1: Overcoming Trends with True Self-Expression & Authentic Connection with Juliana Lindner & Sammie Loos

Danielle Venables Episode 88

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What if the pressure to maintain a polished facade in the coaching industry is doing more harm than good? Join us as we sit down with Juliana Lindner and Sammie Loos for an unfiltered conversation that peels back the layers of burnout and buying fatigue affecting many in the coaching world today. We explore the power of hitting the reset button and progressing authentically, without the ego-driven urge to "save" clients. This episode invites listeners to embrace every aspect of their lives and encourages a more genuine approach to personal and professional development.

As the trend of authenticity gains momentum in business and personal branding, we delve into the challenges entrepreneurs face in maintaining their true selves amidst the noise of current trends. Sharing personal journeys and the unease of selective authenticity, we underscore the importance of self-acceptance and the courage it takes to pivot away from conforming facades. With insights into how ego and fear shape business personas, we share our hopes for a future that celebrates genuine self-expression and fosters deeper connections with audiences.

The conversation steers towards the essence of the coaching industry, emphasizing authenticity over competition and fear-based engagement. Navigating the ethical landscape of coaching, we discuss empowering clients to discover their own paths rather than imposing solutions. Highlighting the importance of honest and direct client relationships, we address the pitfalls of dependency on coaching programs while advocating for self-discovery and sustainable growth. Our dialogue invites listeners to rethink the role of coaches as guides rather than gurus, encouraging an industry shift towards trust, responsibility, and authentic power.

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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Return to Radiance podcast or, if you are a recurring listener, welcome back this episode. I wanted to give just a little bit of context before we dive into the episode itself. So a couple of weeks ago I was approached by a fellow online entrepreneur and leader, juliana Lindner, and she approached me and basically said I want to have a roundtable discussion about the coaching industry where we're going, the things that we see going on, the strategies, the tactics, what's falling away, what is coming forward. And she asked if I wanted to be a part of this conversation. Throughout this conversation, we share our hearts so candidly and so openly. It's literally just a space where we came together essentially as strangers we had connected on Facebook but never really talked and Juliana, sammy and I connected as basically strangers and started just opening up dialogue and sharing authentically sharing from the heart, sharing what we see, sharing what we love, sharing what we think, and doing so without any type of agenda, without trying to assert ourselves as authorities, without trying to position ourselves a certain way or keep masks on in a certain way, and really just led with open hearts and dropped into this candid space. So Juliana has named our meetings, our get-togethers that we are recording now as the Unpolished series, and what we're really diving into here is a form of masterminding, a form of open discussion that is raw, that is unpolished, that is, for all intents and purposes, unedited. You will see, even in this video, there's a point where I think I'm getting a phone call and I'm like, wait, am I getting a call? Hold on a second. And I think there's another point where my son woke up from his nap and I had to go you know, mute myself for a second and go pick him up. So this is really raw, this is really unpolished, and the intention with this unpolished series is really just to reach as many people as possible, to open up a new type of dialogue, to really start to open up a conversation about what the online service-based industry is and where things are going right and where things are going wrong, where things are maybe starting to fall away, and just allowing whatever comes up to come up and be spoken about, have light shown on it. And so, with that, the invitation to keep this series going. We would absolutely love if you would share your feedback after listening to this episode, after listening to this conversation.

Speaker 1:

Join us on social media. You can comment below the youtube video. If you're watching this here on youtube or you know if you're, if you're checking it out on the podcast, go find me over on facebook, instagram. I'll link all of those in the show notes for you and really connect with us and let us know what comes up for you.

Speaker 1:

What other questions do you have? What topics are you navigating or struggling with or finding your way through? And what that does is it allows us to amplify that conversation, right. It gives us topics to then drop to talk about in our get-togethers, which we're planning on doing casually but probably around once a month, to keep that conversation rolling, to keep looking for the new way forward. How do we show up in alignment? How do we show up in authenticity? How do we amplify in a way that is so genuine and rooted in love, and rooted in not needing to be this polished, presented version of ourselves, but rather in the worthiness of who we are today, in every facet of our lives. Right, whether you're a mom or a business owner or a homesteader or all of the above, or a painter or whatever, right it's like, show up as all of you, and that's really the goal of this unpolished container. So I'm going to just cut to the clip that Juliana edited for us and sent out to post across all of our platforms. Thank you so much for doing that, juliana.

Speaker 1:

And let's dive right into the conversation. And I think it really that that that burnout point and we've already talked about the exhaustion, the, the buying fatigue and the disappointment fatigue and and all of that that's going on in the industry and I almost think that that's like a necessary not everybody, but for a lot of people that's going to be a necessary burnout point to reach, to then reset and take that step back and take a pause and then decide how to move forward. Like that's that deep integration that you were talking about. It's like you almost have to let people's stories play out and just let them make their mistakes or let them make their decisions corner that sorry, that will be there when they're ready to go back onto the, you know, step back into mentorship or step back onto their path through a new lens, right.

Speaker 1:

And so I have clients that I haven't worked with for two years that I know damn well in the next three they'll be back because maybe they just weren't ready for exactly what I was offering in its potency, right, like in its fullness, where they they got bits and pieces and it helps them, but they were still, you know, looking in all of these different places and I know that at some point they're going to hit that point of oh no, I just need to come back to myself and I'm going to call Danielle, and again not from a place of like ego or I'm the only person, but just from a place of like.

Speaker 1:

They know what I'm about, they know what I stand for and when they're really looking to reconnect with themselves and not have their mind dragged around by a bunch of different ideas that maybe don't fit for them, that I trust that they will come back into my space, because I've always held that space and I maintain that I'm never going to try to save somebody, because it's not my job, it's not my role. They're capable of saving themselves.

Speaker 2:

Danielle, you have you felt this in accounting and corporate. Like you realize at some point that this is not for me. Like I felt that in the fitness industry I was just surrounded by people that were so phony and doing something. It just did not feel like it was mine. Um, my own, uh, not just to stake claim over something, which obviously business, entrepreneurship, is something that you can own, but I didn't want to be behind corporate fitness, um, their vision, their mission. And and then, sammy, you were saying about, you know, the hair and and makeup industry, like it was constantly about a superficial look like are you getting this, this industry standard?

Speaker 2:

um and do you want to get famous with it? Right, right, it's like that the edge that everybody thinks they want is fame, whereas I feel like that an edge is where we stand out to be truthful and authentic. That's, to me, an edge that I'm after is how, how can I be the person that is standing in her truth, speaking her truth right, living by her truth?

Speaker 1:

Um and to go deep with people, which I think I heard Sammy allude to. That too. It's the depth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah yeah. It was actually one of the reasons why I've made now almost three substantial pivots in what my business identity is like, because I've started in something. I started what felt really comfortable, which was health and wellness. Stepped away, I think it was about six or seven months later I was like I cannot talk about this anymore. This is something that not only is on repetition. In a way, that's like it's bothering me, it's annoying me that I still keep talking about the same things and it's so surface level.

Speaker 2:

And so then I went into um relationship with self, in in how you're viewing yourself, and also the relationship with food. So I was like the anti-diet um, culture coach kind of thing, and same thing, just talking about the, the things that get people to buy from that place. Even though I knew I could deliver, I was like this is, this is disturbing me, this is giving me an it. And when I see I'm still, some of my followers on Instagram are have like just nutrition coaches or health and wellness coaches, fitness coaches and it's all the same thing with sprinkling of authenticity, which is nice, very nice. But even that, I see, is from a trending thing, like a trending um, trending audio, or just a trend in itself, like do a carousel post of something that you wouldn't share normally and I can see that it's just other people following. Oh, it's timely that I now share what other people are sharing. Vulnerable about myself.

Speaker 1:

Friending authenticity.

Speaker 2:

Does anybody feel this was not the original question that I was going into but does anybody feel like authenticity or in alignment has become such a trend, almost to the point where it's scammy?

Speaker 1:

yes, okay, yeah, I, I think there's a lot of. I mean, I've kind of seen it from the beginning. I've been in the industry for four years now but I find, especially in recent months, it's like authenticity, but it's like very selective authenticity. And again, like you said, like with the trends, like I didn't maybe make that connection, but it's like, oh, it's a trend to be authentic about this thing or this little sliver of your life. And I'm not, I'm not in the camp of like, if you're a solopreneur or if you're, you know, a business owner, a personal brand, you have to like bear all.

Speaker 1:

I don't believe in that Um, but I do notice where people still have masks up, where they are, you know, showing like the tiniest little sliver of authenticity, but it's still very removed, like energetically.

Speaker 1:

You can feel like I'm gonna keep all of this here and like here you can have this little bit right, like it's it's very closed off, it's very um guarded, even when they're doing that.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I think I think authenticity it's like, well, yeah, you might've admitted one thing, but where else are you still wearing the mask or keeping up appearances or um, you know, I just recorded a podcast episode last week about um, you know how, how I'm seeing people coming forward and saying, oh, I've actually been struggling for the last year and it's like, okay, so you've kept this, this wall up, you've kept this image going for a year. And there's a part of me that wants to judge that and there's a part of me that deeply can empathize with that. Right Like it's both. But I feel like we're all operating under some sort of facade and I feel like the more plugged into the industry as it is today that you are, the more of a facade you're inevitably, even if you're trying to be authentic, you're inevitably trying to hold that structure and like piece it together.

Speaker 3:

It's, it's interesting it's almost like dehumanizing people, right, like not being authentic. And I feel like as AI grows, people kind of grow into robots. It's very like symbolic, I think. And then I think with also like getting on this trend of authenticity, it's a matter of survival for them, like if I don't hop on this trend, my business won't survive.

Speaker 3:

And what does that say about me? That shit is scary. That is like deep level stuff and that's why, like, I turned my niche I guess you'll say around more so to coaches, but only because I feel like the coaches need it the most nowadays, because it's become so like a cry for help almost. And I'm like you need to actually learn what it means to be authentic and be okay with who you are. And if you're not okay with who you are, no wonder why your business is struggling. Because people can feel it. People can feel it through your content.

Speaker 3:

And I get DMs at times like and I tell them this advice and the questions vary from person to person but because I get these DMs, I'm like you need to be okay with who you are, like what does this mean for you? And they're like, well, I don't know. It's like, okay, well, you don't know because you don't want to know, because knowing is taking responsibility for why you're here where you're at, and if you take responsibility for that and you have to blame yourself, that's so terrifying for a lot of different people and that's why things aren't working for them, but I do feel like the authenticity this trend needs to. I don't know, it's going to die off and then something else will come. Something else always comes right, but it's always rooted back to fear it's the, the presentation.

Speaker 2:

Uh, like danielle was, like you were saying around, the more plugged in you are, the more fabricated it becomes, and mostly not intentionally. It's just what the ego self has now formulated to in order to do, I have to be this way and when, yeah, when you're doing based on how you need to be, versus being and now, presenting the doing or or, uh, creating the doing. That's a different process, like you were saying, like when a trend kind of has its completion right and then a new trend comes in, this trend of competition in the spiritual entrepreneur world, where spiritual entrepreneurs are most likely aware of masculine feminine energy right and competition being a part of a masculine energy and potentially like an unhealthy or wounded masculine energy. What do you feel like will bring that to its opening point or awakening point or edge point?

Speaker 1:

okay, see, I think for me it's this concept of competition. What I've realized for myself is that when I have my blinders on and I'm staying in my own lane and I'm listening to myself, there really is no competition. And it's not coming from a place of I'm just going to be ignorant or I'm going to pretend that I'm so good that nobody can compete with me, or anything like that. But I feel like there is a deep sense when people are connected with their soul, when they're connected with the essence of who they are, there really isn't competition. And any perception of competition comes from the ego, it comes from a place of okay, well, I'm going to compare myself to this person and I'm not good enough because I have, you know, 2000 followers and somebody else has 15,000. So clearly they're better than me and and that comparison is really what manufactures this idea of competition, in my opinion. So when we're showing up and social media is kind of the worst for this and I've kind of taken a step back from a lot of social media personally but when we let go of the vanity metrics and we really focus just on the resonance, on the truth, on the resonance on the truth, on our own conviction in what we're doing, what our skill sets are, how we can truly help people and serve people on their individual soul journeys, but also collectively. Like you know, their impact on the collective and our impact and the ripple effect that comes from that competition doesn't really exist.

Speaker 1:

Now, obviously, there's a financial side to that of you're either getting clients or you're not. But to me, when I'm disconnected again from the industry, from the narratives, from the ego side of what is coaching, what is coaching? What is business? Um, my getting a client is not because somebody else did or didn't sign someone. You know, like there's plenty of fish in the sea, but like there really is.

Speaker 1:

And I mean I know people who work with six coaches at a time and I know people who work with none. But if somebody else came along who was completely aligned, they would hire them in an instant. Boom, pay in full. Oh, your price is 100K, I don't care, I want you people. Um, see ourselves the self-concept for one. But then when we also start to see other people as the authorities of their lives, as being in the driver's seat, as being in power, we shouldn't have to. We shouldn't have to and we don't have to compete for their attention and and that's really what it comes down to that's why I prioritize authenticity, is because when you know, you know my son just woke up I'll be right back.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a really good point, that it's almost as if the competition it doesn't exist.

Speaker 2:

Right with with someone who is in their essence, in their authenticity, the competition does not exist. And yet the trend of competition is almost creating, um, this distrust in other people, which then comes down to, okay, you're maybe not even looking at another coach because you can't even trust yourself on the decisions that you're making. Because of all the stories and you know, I'm going to say proof that you went into an agreement, you went into this energy exchange, and it was nothing of what exchange and it was nothing of what you expected, or it was half of what you expected, right. And so I feel like a lot of the industry that has us trending to where we are right now is, for one, a little bit of like masculine marketing manipulation, but also building on a level of uh, distrust that has now gone just higher and higher, and that's what I'm sensing. I'm sensing that the people that are not buying right now are I don't like the word burnt out, but I think they're burnt out from the amount of distrust that now yeah, I'm seeing that too with clients.

Speaker 3:

Like they're just like I get people all the time if I mention hypnosis in my content. They're like I'm a little bit thrown off by the word hypnosis and I'm like I'm not gonna make you dance like a chicken. Okay, like this is if I can use it for that, why wouldn't we use it for good too? And it's a lot different than coaching. And I have to explain that to them and I have to really break it down for them. But they're like oh, I still don't know and I'm just like I wish I could show you how genuine I am, because if you're distrustful, I would rather you sign them with me than anyone out there, because it's making me like not trust coaches with the potential clients words involved in the DMs as well. So I don't know if that made sense. I have that in my head and that made more sense in my head, but I don't know. I'm just I'm seeing a lot of it and, for example, I'll just share this with you guys I have I just signed a client who has spent 150 K on coaching and programs in the past and she was so hesitant to sign on with me and I was like this isn't coaching, this is.

Speaker 3:

I mean, yes, I will be helping you through all of this, because there's a lot of detox that needs to come out energetic, spiritual, all of it detox. And I'm I was just like listen, you need to take responsibility. Like I was saying before. You need to take responsibility, like I was saying before. You need to take responsibility for where you're at, because you spent all this money and you still have this embodiment of fear within you and you're surrounding yourself with self-help books. Is it helping you? No, have you done reprogramming your mind before? No, okay, let's move forward. And I was able to talk to her.

Speaker 3:

In a way, I'm I'm very like um, when I talk to people, like they need to hear it, I'm very like football coach type Like come on, like you, like I call them out on their shit because they need it, but I tell them full disclosure. I'm going to be hard on you, but everything I say is said with love, because I don't think that these people have ever heard that before. That's why they continue to buy programs, because the coaches and in my experience, I've hired coaches in the past too who act like they care and I just I sign on and I'm like this isn't what I thought it was going to be. And I've been in programs and I'm just like this is not what I thought it was going to be at all and it's not what I needed. And I felt like I don't know if you've ever gotten like a massage or like gotten your hair done you're just like, wow, that was a waste of money. You know like we've all had that.

Speaker 3:

But it's also in the coaching industry and I just feel like the competition is irrelevant because I'm in my own inner world over here and I don't consider myself really a coach. While I do have coaching programs available, I don't really call. I don't have coaching programs available. I don't really call. I don't advertise myself as a coach. You know I'm a hypnotherapist, so I don't know. I'm just seeing a lot of fear with all of that. I just coming down from like a hypnosis standpoint, a hypnosis mindset, I'm just like, is it fear or is it love? Okay, it's fear, yeah, that's fine. And I feel like the ones who are trying to compete are the ones who need people like us the most right. It's like it is very true, it's the real truth, honey, like let's, let's get real here and I would love to, I would love to help them. I really would, because I think they would do so much better and feel so much better about um all aspects of their life yeah be lighter and playful and peaceful.

Speaker 2:

It'd be fun, challenging right. And so we're challenging, we're evolving, we're growing, we're expanding um and we're also peacefully present like right, and it's just life.

Speaker 3:

Don't take it seriously, it's just a game.

Speaker 2:

Come on, she's a game one of the things I feel like. Maybe, danielle, you might have mentioned this. I had the idea pop up because this is something that's come up into my, through my heart and also just my attention to who I'm around. This is very much present in the therapeutic world in the in the states where I'm at and um, I always look from the vantage point of okay, a lot of therapists enter the world of therapy or social work from the standpoint of I want to help others right, and oftentimes they didn't receive help from other people so they want to be that support system for others, especially if they got a taste of counseling or therapy.

Speaker 2:

They may have changed direction or just, from growing up and not receiving support from parents or mentors or anybody, they wanted to be that person for others and, as beautiful that is, it ends up becoming like this little room that they sit in where they forget about helping themselves, and it's just a lot, and I cannot imagine how much, well, how much like blockage there is in sessions when someone is not helping themselves, and and then also how exhausting that must be to have. Is in the therapy world, um, like clinical therapy and insurance covered therapy, and yet the same type of situation is happening in the coaching industry as a whole and healing, healing arts and um, yeah, a lot of just I'm showing up to do the work, or I'm showing up to do the practice, or I'm showing up to facilitate, and then I'm very much removed from that on my own because I'm I'm still doing it, I'm still doing it yeah yeah you know, what I think interesting about that is, I think it stems, like hearing you reflect on it.

Speaker 1:

I feel like it stems from this whole narrative of, oh, if you're going to be a coach, you have to have a coach, which is like very like, that's like four years ago coaching industry, if not longer.

Speaker 1:

But it's one of those things where that mentality, that narrative, has start started to kind of form a codependence, and like an unhealthy codependence, right, like not interdependence, which I think is more what we're doing here, right, but a codependent place of almost being too lazy to do your own work or too lazy to find your own answers, or just not having the capacity or not prioritizing it, whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

But it's like relying on the external sources for your next move, whether that's your business coach or whether that's a spiritual coach, or whether it's all of the above or your therapist or whatever. It's like constantly looking to the outside and then gradually disconnecting from yourself, which I think exasperates the symptoms of everything we've talked about in terms of the competition and the misalignment and using the buzzwords and trying to get the clients and like all of that stuff is sort of a symptom where and I can speak from experience here, where I am one of those people who spent probably close to a hundred grand on mentorship in my time as an entrepreneur and very little return on it if you actually break it down.

Speaker 1:

But it started with that narrative and then it became a place of well, I just need the answer. It's still not working. So what's the next answer? What's the next move? Or it's kind of working, so how can I amplify that? So, looking externally for those things instead of self-sourcing them. For those things instead of self-sourcing them.

Speaker 1:

And the last 18 months I have been without a mentor, without anything. I'm relying just on my network of people who I know and trust and, you know, have relationships with. But I have not spent anything on actual mentorship in 18 months. And the answers that come through, the questions that come up, are they always resolved? Are they always 100% clear? No, but at least I know that I'm hearing my own voice and the answers are coming from within and I am doing the inner work on myself because I don't have a choice. I can't sort of put a bandaid over it by finding someone else to give me the answer. I have to be like self-accountable in that way. So don't get me wrong. I believe in the power of mentorship and working in community and things like that. But I also believe that so many people are caught up in looking external, in the self-help books, in the other mentors, in whatever else that we're just completely unplugging and disconnecting, unconsciously usually, but disconnected nonetheless yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 3:

I don't have a mentor right now either, and I have never been so empowered in my own business Like I really feel like sometimes coaches can be, or mentors of any type can be, a little bit overpowering. And for me personally, I have this little rebel inside of me. I call her my little teenager and whenever I have had a coach, we all have her Daniela, you're laughing. But whenever I do have a coach like I feel like I'm like, okay, she can take my business and skyrocket it, but I don't want my business to skyrocket because of her, I want it to skyrocket because of me. So, f whatever she's saying, I'm gonna do it this way and I go completely opposite and I sabotage and it's just like what am I doing? And it's awful, but I have not had a, I've not been a part of a program or coaching and, uh, I want to say 18 months to actually something like that.

Speaker 3:

And the last program I was in, my friend referred me to it and she was like, oh my God, my business was doing so great because of these people and I'm like that's cool, I'm not going to listen to them, so I'm going to go over here and spend five grand anyways and go over here and do my own thing, and it didn't. What came out of that. I don't even know, like, like why did I do that? And it's like then, maybe that's just the place I'm in right now. It's like we're just being honest here, right. So, yeah, I mean I don't feel like having a coach is for everybody, but I do feel like for the people who are interested in it, like it is going to benefit them. It's just it comes back to that authentic authenticity and showing people like listen, I know what the coaching industry has become, but I'm not that way, and so I think there's multiple ways to show that. So I don't know how you guys show that, but I have my little things here and there to do all that.

Speaker 2:

The. The biggest thing that I came to that relates to this is when I did label myself as a coach and I had an extended coaching program. I only met with them three times a month. I only met with them three times a month and so that was like okay, depending on schedule and just how things were moving along. We looked at having one integration week per month and I didn't want that codependency to be like they're relying on meeting with me and seeing what's next. I wanted things to land and then for their own questions to come up and for them to really approach them.

Speaker 2:

I feel like there's a lot of you know, there's benefit and there's value in that high touch aspect, but when there's no space left for the individual to sit with their own things and have their own questions come up and then face that right to like, be with it, to sit with it all, um, it's to me a disservice to the client.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, so integration you're both both of you are saying a lot of just deep integration of the things that you've already acquired, things you already learned, things that you've already been certified in and just grasped new skills with.

Speaker 2:

It's just you listening to you and I think that's a very powerful place to be and I'm kind of I wouldn't say on the fence with this, but like there's been intention for me to be a part of certain groups or masterminds, not for the whole, like the pure sense of being in the space with those women, but I knew that being a part of this particular group or being working with this individual, um, not necessarily me looking at their status, but me saying, okay, their level of expansion and growth is what I'm aspiring to go towards. Maybe, maybe not reach and especially not their metrics, um, or maybe there are, maybe potentially. But as soon as I say yes to this agreement, as soon as I say yes to this exchange, things start to open up. Right, like you said, sammy, like as soon as the client, before you even meet, they're starting to manifest, because it does open things up.

Speaker 3:

And then the other catch side to that is, if you're always inside of other people's rooms, how much are you, you know, turning to yourself and relying on yourself and staying responsible for yourself yeah, and I feel like we all know those people who are just constantly buying one program and one course and another coach after another, and it's just like I've had those clients and they're like oh yeah, I want to buy this, I want to buy that. I'm like do you need it though? Do you need it, though, or are you just addicted? Are you just addicted, like? Are you scared to look within? Yeah, like, what would happen if you just sat with yourself for four months, not having any mentorships, not looking at youtube videos of how to do it better? What would happen? You know, they don't know how to answer are they willing to do it?

Speaker 3:

I don't think so. I think it's too much of an addiction. And I'm thinking of one particular client I had and I love her so much. I don't want to like scare her too much, but she is trying to resign on with me. I know she had another coach as well and then she was buying all these programs and I'm like, okay, but you need to pay your rent. You know, like what you're doing is already good enough and I worked with her a lot on that and she became a completely different person at the end of my program and I'm so genuinely proud of her. But she has more work to do, so it's just like it's that addiction, I think. Have you guys noticed that? Have you had clients like that who just want to buy one thing after another because they just don't feel like they're enough as they are?

Speaker 1:

I've had. Actually, there's one client specifically that comes to mind and I love her dearly. She is like one of my favorite people on this planet, but at one point a couple years ago she was working with me and then she was working with another coach who was directly stood for everything. That I was like deconditioning, like Like she'd get on a call with me and we would deprogram. No, you don't need to do that to be successful. What do you want to do? And like getting her back to her center, getting her back to her voice, getting her feeling really good, getting her, you know, inspired and lit up by what she was doing, and doing it a way that was sustainable with her lifestyle and her kids' lives and her, her basic needs. And and then she'd, you know, pop over to the call with the other coach and then the following month it would be like back to square one, deconditioning all these things. I'm like what are you doing? Like you know, I've. It's like sometimes there is just there is too much input. There is too much. And I think that brings a really important conversation point about ethics when we are working as service providers and especially people who label themselves as coaches, because a coach. In essence, the very definition of a coach is they're meant to guide you to your own answers. Like if you take a proper accredited coaching certification of any sort, it will teach you how to ask questions that are powerful, that are insightful, but that don't guide people to any one answer. Like it's very open, it's very just for your truth to come through, and that has gotten so lost and bastardized in this industry because people are acting as consultants. They're acting as um I don't even know what like gurus to come to me for your answers. Like I'll never forget this.

Speaker 1:

One time I started to have a little bit of interest in human design and I was like tiptoeing with, like, maybe playing a little bit of like, integrating that into the way that I business coached or something, because it some of the insights were helpful for me at the time and so I wanted to just like gently apply it gently. Like keep in mind, if I'm looking at someone's business structure, okay, if they're a generator versus a projector, maybe the advice that I give them may vary a little bit. And my coach on that call was like okay, so you're a human design coach, put that in your bio. And I'm like but I'm not a fucking human design coach, like you know.

Speaker 1:

But it's like you have to keep your ego in check. You have to be self-aware enough to know when you're trying to be the solution to your client's problem versus when you're just there to hold space for the process. And that's the difference between the codependence versus not. That's the difference between them being in their power and not losing themselves when they are working intimately with you. You know like all of those things come down to. How do you operate as a service provider and where are you guiding them? Do you have an agenda when you get on these calls, are you trying to prove yourself? Are you trying to control their outcome so that you look good as a coach, or are you just an open channel for whatever needs to come through in that session and willing to just hold a neutral, safe space for that to come forward that session, and willing to just hold a neutral, safe space for?

Speaker 3:

that to come forward. Yeah, that reminds me of a story I'll share with you guys. So I had like a free master class going on for a little bit and I stopped it because it just hasn't gotten me any results. But I had someone in there and she went from being so excited about my masterclass, my masterclasses I was holding, and everything to oh, I'm so sorry I couldn't make it on the call tonight. I had a family birthday party I forgot about, so I'm going to watch it tomorrow, okay.

Speaker 3:

Well, tomorrow comes around and she just like completely is like, hey, she left the group and I was like, hey, what's going on? Like, are you okay? And she's like yeah, and then she wrote me. I was in the middle of doing something else but I saw like two messages come through, something about you know how you can see the previews on her, your phone. So I was something about like yeah, I'm just like not in a place in my life right now, and my other coaches something about her other coach.

Speaker 3:

And then it got unsent. Both un-messaged got unsent. And then she said, yeah, I'm fine. And I was like, okay, I think that this other coach is influencing her to not watch. Mind you, they're free masterclasses. Okay, like to not have her go anywhere else except for her little bubble that she wants to control her in.

Speaker 3:

And I was like, oh my god, like I wish I could save you, because being a coach it's about, like, guiding them along their journey, whether that means you're the right coach for them or not. Or you know, with my emails I send out like if you're on the fence about joining a program, if you're on the fence about hiring someone to help you along your journey, whether it's me or not, keyword like do it. Like. Here's some words from my client. Here's some words from this quote. Whatever it may be, but I'm not here to control them and I feel like a lot of this. These coaches out there are have turned the coaching world so competitive to where they're now controlling the little puppets of clients, and it's so sad to me because I'm like how are they going to have their full life, benefit of their like, seek out their whole purpose, if you're telling them exactly what they need to be doing? It's not about that, so I don't know my little rant. Your son's so cute, by the way, oh, thank, keep looking at him.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and it's. It's one of those things too of like holding the balance of um, you know not obviously wanting to be controlling or anything and also when you see a client, you know doing what we had mentioned about being in six different programs with eight different coaches and like all of that stuff, and like getting conflicting information and and having that like consumption paralysis, it's like it's kind of there. It's both like they're both related, um, and so like I'll never tell somebody not to go work with another coach. I'll never tell them like, oh, if you work with me, like we're exclusive kind of thing, right, but at the same time, I will continually guide people back to you are enough, you've done enough, you know enough, you're resourced enough, and like let's drop in from that state.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's the biggest thing that we need to commit to as as people who hold people in some of their more vulnerable edges and transformations, is like I will always see the highest vision of you, not your potential, not the things that I could potentially brag about to get more clients, none of that, but I will always see you in your power. I will always see you as an equal. I will always see you as an individual who is capable of making the best possible decision for you. And even if you don't make the decision that I think you should make, and even if you don't make the decision that I think you should make because I can maybe see a blind spot or I know that's a pitfall, I'm still going to honor your journey because I love and trust and respect you as a person and as a soul, and it's part of your learning, it's part of your path, thank you.