127. Is IVF Biblical? My Response to Fertility, Surrogacy, and God’s Sovereignty

A lot of people talk about IVF and surrogacy like they’re morally neutral tools. We don’t.

In this episode, we slow down and ask a question many Christians avoid saying out loud: If God is sovereign over life and fertility, what does that mean for the choices we make when infertility hurts and hope feels delayed?

We walk through Scripture—from Genesis to 1 Samuel, Ruth, and the Psalms—where children are consistently described as a gift and a stewardship, not a product or an entitlement. Again and again, the Bible points to God as the one who opens and closes the womb.

We also draw a crucial distinction many miss: the Bible includes both descriptive stories (what happened) and prescriptive truth (what God commands). Confusing the two can lead us to justify modern “solutions” simply because something similar appears in a narrative.

From there, we talk honestly about the ethical questions Christians should wrestle with when it comes to reproductive technology:

•  Surrogacy and the separation of pregnancy from parenthood 
•  The risk of commodifying children 
•  IVF practices involving multiple embryos, freezing, and loss of life 

Ultimately, this conversation comes back to a deeper tension: trust vs. striving.

We close with a hopeful, often-overlooked alternative rooted in the Christian story itself: adoption, and the biblical language of God adopting us into His family.

If this topic hits close to home, we approach it with both compassion and clarity.

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Transcript

Opening Question And Aim

SPEAKER_00 0:40

In a world full of IVF, surrogacy, and other alternative options for conception, what does the Bible really say about fertility? Hi, my name is Danielle Venables, and this is the Counterculture Mama podcast. And today I am going to be covering a topic that is definitely an emotional one. It is definitely a hot button topic. The people who have feelings about it often have strong feelings and emotions in one way or another. And my goal today is to tackle this not from an emotional place, but from a biblical place. And I want to start off by just saying that I know that this is one of those topics, especially for those of you who want to be moms, who maybe haven't had kids of your own yet, are struggling with infertility, or even those of you who have had kids, but you're still struggling with miscarriages and infertility and things like that. I just want to start off by saying this is not intended to be disrespectful towards you, towards your journey, towards your emotions. I know that there is a lot of grief, and honestly, if this is going to elicit a negative emotional reaction from you, it may be best to use your own discernment with this, of course, but it may be best to just skip this one. And that's okay too. When when a topic hits close to home, like it's not always helpful to dive into the ins and outs and especially other people's opinions. Of course, I am going to be bringing as much Bible into this episode as I possibly can to build my case, but that doesn't take away the real emotional pain of like what we what we experience as humans, right? And so I just want to I want you to know going into this episode that I have so much grace and compassion and empathy for the struggles that you may be personally having. And at the same time, it doesn't make some of the other points any less relevant, right? Like as Christians, we are called to speak the truth in love, we are called to give voice to things that maybe other people haven't thought about. So, you know, your existence is not by accident, your baby's existence is not by accident. Of course, there are you know those resources available to people, and this is exclusively like my opinion and my biblical interpretation on the matter. It is not saying that your life is any less valuable, it is not saying that I wish your kids were never born, none of those things. So don't even go there. Again, this isn't this isn't about personal attack on anybody, it really is just bringing awareness to a broader conversation that I think needs to be had and at least weighed before we decide to support the IVF industry. So without further ado, I will dive right into it. Point number one is that God has sovereignty over life and fertility. And I know because I have friends who have suffered with infertility, and um, you know, there there's that desire to throw punch people when they say, Oh, like all in God's timing, right? It feels dismissive, it feels hurtful, and also our emotions don't dictate the truth. Scripture dictates the truth, God dictates the truth, and God is sovereign over all of life. He decides, you know, when he gives, he decides when he takes away. And that goes for anything,

God’s Sovereignty Over Fertility

SPEAKER_00 5:07

right? It goes for money, it goes for children, it goes for, you know, one day when we have to say goodbye to our parents on this earth, right? Like, he is sovereign over everything, and so because of that, he is also sovereign over fertility. Um, biblically, we see this in in the book of Genesis pretty heavily. Uh, Genesis 29, 31 says, When the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb. So, again, that's setting the precedent that she was struggling with infertility, and he gave her that grace of having a baby. That was a very complicated situation, by the way. This guy had two wives, and yeah, anyway, he he liked Jacob liked his one wife more than the other, and it was just a mess. But God gave that grace to Leah because it was an honor to be the mother of a firstborn in that time. And so he opened her womb. Genesis 32 says, 30, chapter 30, verse 2, says, When Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, because Rachel was barren, she envied her sister, Leah. She said to Jacob, Give me children, or I shall die. Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel, and he said, Am I in the place of God who has withheld from you the fruit of the womb? So again, like even the early Israelites had this understanding that God is the God who gives and takes away, that God is the one who opens and closes the womb. Then later on, if you're following, by the way, the book of Genesis, if you're into like reality TV at all, if that's like your guilty pleasure, the book of Genesis is basically reality TV in the Bible. It is wild, some of the things that some of the ways that humans have historically rebelled against God. But anyway, all of that to say, so further along, then they both use their their servants to bring more babies, and then after Leah ends up using surrogacy to have another baby, it says in Genesis 30, 22, then God remembered Rachel and opened her womb. So that's the other wife that was originally barren. So again, like total, total side thing about the about the soap opera that was Genesis, but it really just keeps hammering home. Like he opened the womb, he closed the womb. You also see this earlier in Genesis with Sarah and Abraham, and they were promised a child that was gonna carry the covenant line, and it wasn't happening, and it wasn't happening, and they were getting older. And when she when Sarah was told that she was gonna have a baby, she laughed at God, and she was like, No, I'm too old. So, and then and then she took matters into her own hands, right? She's like, Okay, well, maybe, maybe the covenant line is supposed to be carried through, you know, this child. So she tries to force a child into place and ends up again giving her servant to her husband and saying, Here, use her. And anyway, long story short, she ends up having her own child later on. So I'll get to that in a minute, but like it just it it shows God's sovereignty over fertility, over birth, over pregnancy, over that entire process. If you go into the book of Samuel, first Samuel 1, the Lord has had closed her womb. Then 1 Samuel 1, 19 to 20, when the Lord does grant Hannah conception, it says, And the Lord remembered her, and in due time Hannah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Samuel, for she said, I have asked for him from the Lord. So again, there's this deep, like the women in the Bible also experienced infertility, they also experienced the pain of that, they also experienced like the shame of that and the inadequacy that comes with that, which I know is something that modern women can definitely relate to. But ultimately, like it wasn't until God was like, Okay, now it's time, that he did. Ruth 413 says the Lord gave her conception. Again, scripture is just explicitly clear that the Lord gives us this gift, we are not entitled to it. And Psalm 127.3 says, Children are heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward. So this just establishes like the firm foundation found in scripture that fertility is attributed to God's direct action, not random chance and not purely human control. And I think that's like a really important foundation to have when you're reading the Bible because again, it appears through multiple different books and multiple different chapters. This wasn't just some guy's opinion, these were written like years and years apart by different people, and in all cases, God was sovereign over fertility. So now moving back to the Abraham and Sarah story. So this can be found in Genesis 16, where Sarah gives Hagar, her servant, to Abraham to produce a child. And she says, Go into my servant, it may be that I shall obtain children by her. So this is Sarah saying, Well, it's impossible for me to have children. I'm too old. So here, let's make it happen this way. And so then, fast forward, they do create a child in that way. And in Genesis 17, verses 18 to 19, Abraham

Sarah, Hagar, And Consequences

SPEAKER_00 10:50

asks for Ishmael to be the promise, like the promised child from God that he had promised them earlier in Genesis. And God says no. And so, even though they took things into their own hands, it still wasn't the covenant child that they were promised. So, anyway, later on they end up having Isaac through Sarah, right? Not through their own works, but through God opening Sarah's womb. And then in Genesis 21, there's conflict between Ishmael, who was Hagar's son, and Isaac, who was Sarah's son. And they ended up actually sending Ishmael and Hagar away. So not only did it create relational discord in their relationship, in their family, in their household, but it also created long-term conflict between Ishmael and Isaac. So the pattern that we can take away from that is like there's a delayed promise, or God appears to not be delivering on his promise, or we just feel entitled to have what we want to have, right? Which I will get into. And you know, just a common thing that I see is like, oh, well, they did it in the Bible, like it happened in the Bible. I see this with polygamy, I see this with surrogacy, I see it with all kinds of things. Oh, well, they did it in the Bible. And what's really important to distinguish here is that in the Bible, there are two main types of things that we can learn. One is lessons through storytelling, aka descriptive events, right? Where it's like, I did this and it went horribly for me, so I'm telling you this story now so that you don't repeat it, right? We can learn lessons from descriptive things that have happened. The other is prescriptive. And that is like when God gives us commands, when Jesus gives us commands, when he tells us, you know, that

Descriptive Versus Prescriptive Bible Reading

SPEAKER_00 13:17

we have to love our neighbor. When he tells us to love God above everything else, when he tells us to store up our treasures in heaven instead of on earth, because where your treasures are, so will your heart be, right? Like those types of things are prescriptive, they're things that we're supposed to follow. But when somebody does something in the Bible and it goes horribly wrong, and there's a bunch of headaches and they end up cursing their family lineage for generations, which also happens in the Bible, by the way. You know, those kinds of things are not here. Do this too. There it's God showing us the consequences of sin. So He's allowing sin to be in the Bible to teach us a lesson so that we don't have to learn those things the hard way. Now, we still do choose to learn things the hard way because we're human, but it it's really important to distinguish between the two because just because something appears in the Bible does not mean that it is instituted by God. Now, one of the places where people will argue in favor of things like IDF, things like surrogacy, things like any other artificial means to bring life into the world, is that the Bible says be fruitful and multiply. And this is true. It does say that, but it also says that it's not everybody's calling. Paul writes about this. I can't remember where in Corinthians, but there's a chapter in Corinthians where he talks about like, you know, give yourself to one another. Actually, it's 1 Corinthians 7, I believe. It's like when you're married, like give your body fully

“Be Fruitful” Without Striving

SPEAKER_00 14:52

over to the other person, don't deprive one another unless it's agreed upon for reasons of prayer, blah blah blah. And so he he talks about that, but he's like, But then if if you don't like feel like you have to be married, like don't get married. So it's not it's not something that everybody is called to, and that's basically what what that comes down to is yes, if you're married and if you're able, absolutely be fruitful and multiply. But what what good command from God will require you to step out of line and do the things that the people in the Bible did to force your will into being? Like, you know, I I hope you see where I'm getting at with this, where it's like if you have to force something into place, if you have to take extraordinary measures to make something happen, that might not be God's will for your life. And that could be the case because of timing, it could be the case because it's not meant to happen at all, it could be a redirection that you were meant to adopt, which I will get into it also later. But, you know, be fruitful and multiply is not do the thing at any and all costs, right? It's not the mean the the end justifies the means. That's never the teaching of the Bible, actually. There isn't there's nowhere in the Bible that specifically says do whatever you need to do to get to the end result, right? We are meant to move in the direction that God is calling us, and we are meant to submit to his will, even when he's not giving us what we want or what we feel entitled to, or you know, what we long for. And again, like this isn't to dismiss the pain that you go through, but it still is his will for one reason or another. Like, whether it's fair or not, whether it's comfortable or not, whether it is excruciatingly painful or not, like his will is his will, and he puts us through what he puts us through for a reason to build faith, to advance the gospel, to teach us some sort of lesson, to sanctify us, right? Like he has his reasons, and even if those reasons are never revealed to us, we still owe it to him to know that he is good, to know that he's a good dad who has his his kids' best intentions the center of what he's doing, right? And that doesn't always mean that we're blessed with everything that we want. So we need to show up in submission to God's will and God's timing, even when it's extremely hard. And I just want to say, like, I see so many Christian women do this so unbelievably well. And it doesn't mean they don't cry, it doesn't mean they don't bargain, it doesn't mean they don't reason with God, it doesn't mean they don't get mad and like feel the full spectrum of emotions. But at the end of the day, they do come to a place of like, okay, God, not my will, but yours. And that's a beautiful place to be, regardless of the outcome. That is a beautiful, beautiful place to be. Now, on the topic of surrogacy, because I think like IVF, surrogacy, egg donation, sperm donation, like, you know, all of these different things. There's there's layers to these things, right? And one is that God designed for children to be created in a specific way for a specific reason within the confines of marriage between one man and one woman, and you know, this is affirmed again in 1 Corinthians 7, do not deprive one another except by agreement. But the the point is that children come through marital

Surrogacy And God’s Design

SPEAKER_00 19:04

union, not detached processes, and we see this biologically as well, by the way. There, I there has been like some serious trauma that you can literally see being formed when a surrogate hands over a baby to a new couple, and it's not, you know, mom. Like they they grow inside you for nine months, and then all of a sudden, everything that's familiar, your smell, the sound of your voice, like everything about you is just gone, and they're ripped apart from that. That I don't think that we'll necessarily ever understand just how deeply that can impact the foundation and the secure attachment of a child. But that's where I stand firmly in the belief and the conviction that children are not commodities, they are not owed to you, they are not they're not something that can be bought, they're not meant, and this is this is gonna be controversial, but they're not meant to be in homosexual relationships, and the reason for that is biology, but it's also God's design. Children come through the marital union, that is how he designed children to be made. So, why are we then trafficking children into other homes? And that that might sound harsh, but it's just the reality. If you make a decision to a live in sin and rebellion against God, right? Like if you are in a homosexual relationship, you are in rebellion against God, and that is a biblical fact. That is not my opinion. In fact, I struggle with that personally. I I still feel uncomfortable about that reality because I have people who I absolutely love who are in homosexual relationships, and it kills me, but I it still is black and white. You would have to cut it out of the Bible that marriage is between one man and one woman, and so when we start to produce children, they become a product that these couples can buy, and that is really, really troubling because child trafficking in any other sense of the word is highly problematic. So why is this any different? Now, on that topic of children not being commodities, it's like, well, how how could you say that? Like, it's my kid, you know. I I you don't own your children, you don't own your eggs, you don't own your sperm, they do not belong to you in the sense of God. And what I mean by that is we are stewards of our children, we are meant to raise them the best that we know how, we are meant to point them towards God, we are meant to help them grow up to be healthy, secure, faithful human beings, but we don't own them. And when we can come to accept the reality that God Owns everything, like I said, with him being sovereign over fertility, he gives and he takes away. We don't own it, we can't control that. So when we submit to God in that way, then we realize that we are just stewards of God's children, we are not actually owners of children, and so if we can't own a child, then who are we to sell a child through surrogacy, through selling eggs, etc. Psalm 127, verses 3 to 5 describe children as heritage and a reward. Psalm 139, God knits life together in the womb. Job 31, 15, did not he who made me in the womb make him? They're not commodities. They're not human-made outcomes, they're not science experiments, and we do not own them. And I stand I stand firm in that conviction, especially as we move towards creating babies in unnatural environments, right? IVF is one of those unnatural environments. Yes, eventually they end up in the womb, but they're created in a lab. They are started in a lab and then they're implanted. Which also comes down to like brings me to another point about IB IVF, which is as Christians, according to Exodus 2013, I believe it is, we need to strongly oppose murder. And what most people don't realize about IVF, and it is gaining awareness nowadays, but a lot of people still don't know, IVF, what they do is they create a bunch of embryos, and they will only implant a couple.

IVF, Embryos, And Moral Risk

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Or they stay frozen in perpetuity until somebody adopts them, which again, then you know, you're just messing with biology in a way that is contra God's will. And what I would say to that is God gives us, allows us to discover or create a lot of things that are not godly. Right? We have the technology to be recording audio and video that can be used to advance the gospel, it can also be used to record pornography and distribute it. Or worse, if you don't have a problem with regular porn, it can be used for child porn. So just because God gives us the technology to do something does not automatically mean that it has his stamp of approval on it. He allows us to sin because we have free will and we live in a fallen world. That does not mean that he automatically rubber stamps everything just because it meets the desires of our heart, just because it's something that we wanted to do, right? So just be careful using arguments like that. Next, in this conversation, we have the idea of trust versus striving. So again, I'm bringing the focus kind of solely back to IVF and infertility in this case. But Proverbs 3, 5 through 6 says, Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. Psalm 20, verse 7, some trust in chariots, but we trust in the Lord. And even Ecclesiastes 11 5 says, You do not know how life forms in the womb. So humans don't control life at its core fundamental level. Right? We are called

Trust Versus Control

SPEAKER_00 26:55

to trust in the Lord, to trust in his plan. And so the Bible clearly teaches like God is sovereign over the womb. Children are gifts, they are not products, they are not commodities, and taking matters into our own hands, like in Genesis 16, can have consequences. And they're usually unintended consequences, right? Like, even if you argued that the destruction of babies in IVF wasn't problematic, there can still be unexplained consequences. Just like I was saying about, you know, handing a surrogate baby over to their new family, what does that fundamentally do to the attachment of this newborn? We don't know, and there's no way to know for sure. So they can have consequences, and even well-meaning uses of these technologies and these options can still have really devastating consequences. So while the Bible doesn't explicitly address modern fertility methods, I believe that if you apply broad biblical principles, you can come to a reasonable conclusion that the way that we treat infants and the way that we treat fertility as a whole are not how God intended and not how he laid out in his word for us. And so at this point, you might be getting to a place where it's like, okay, well, if I can't if I can't have babies, then like then what? Right? And that's a really important question to ask, but we also need to not be so short-sighted that we neglect other options just because they're not our ideal option, right? So you know, adoption has been a thing from the beginning of time.

Adoption As A Christian Path

SPEAKER_00 28:58

There have been families that have taken in other other people's kids for various reasons, and that is just a normal normal thing that we have done throughout history. I'm just pulling up some Bible verses here for you. But so adoption is a very real, very real option, very noble option in my opinion, especially as a Christian, because as Christians, we are pro-life. If you are not, then you are pro-murder and you are breaking one of the Ten Commandments. So just heads up on that front. And that's a whole other podcast episode about why abortion is actually murder and why life does start at conception, which has also been proven by science at this point, but that's neither here nor there. But adoption is a really real option, right? Like, if we want to, as Christians in general, if we want to oppose abortion because it's satanic and morally wrong, then we should be, and statistically, by the way, we are. I believe it's like three times the rate of secular people or something for adoption rates among Christian couples. So it absolutely is a thing. But like we should be looking in that direction and saying, hey, if we can't have our own, then let's do something else good. Let's take in another child who is unwanted or who ended up orphaned somehow, and let's raise them up to be, you know, loving, secure, functional, God-fearing humans, right? Like, let's let's do that. So to back this up biblically, because I'm not just gonna say, oh, yeah, let's let's adopt. Number one, like the key philosophy that I like to hang on to is the fact that we are told that we are adopted in by God as his children, right? Ephesians 1:5 says this in love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ in accordance with his pleasure and will. There is also not only so, but we ourselves who have the first fruits of the spirit grown inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. That's Romans 8:23. Romans 8:14 to 17. For as many are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the spirit of adoption by whom we cry. Abba, Father. The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified together. So that is literally talking about God accepting us as his own children, us accepting God as our father, which by the way, when Jesus in Matthew, I can't remember exactly what chapter that was in, but when he gives us the Our Father prayer, that was actually like a really radical thing at that time. And it was not common prior to, like, if you read through the Old Testament, it actually wasn't common for people to call God father. And so when Jesus is saying this, and he's saying, our father, he's basically showing you that you are adopted, that you can call him dad. And that's a really like beautiful thing as well. Other verses about adoption in you, you mean God, in you the orphan finds mercy. That's Hosea 14:3. We have let's see, a father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling. God sets the lonely in families, and then it goes on. That's Psalms 68, 5 to 6. And then last one is, you know, some of you are like, Yeah, but did Jesus say it? And here's my yes. Jesus says, and whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. And that's Matthew 18, 5. So there is a strong biblical case for adoption. A, because God adopted us as children, even though we were completely unworthy and not his chosen people originally, unless you're Jewish. And B, it's part of just what we're called to, like it fits into the Christian worldview as a whole. And so instead of trying to play God, instead of trying to force his hand, instead of, you know, trying to create something that isn't as God intended, and and by the way that He intends it to happen, my invitation is to seriously look at adoption and to open your heart to that. And does it have its own unique challenges? Absolutely. But it is also so unbelievably rewarding to be able to give a child who is already alive a second chance rather than going through questionable means with questionable ethics and practices that probably don't actually align with the Christian worldview very well, just to create a new child, or several, or several when only one gets born and the rest, the rest don't. And by the way, I do know that IVF does this thing where they'll just implant way too many embryos and then they'll let you naturally air quotes miscarry them as well. And honestly, that's still that's still crossing a line where it's like, okay, but you know that won't be viable if you do that, and you're doing it anyway. So that's really walking a very thin line towards abortion as well, just in a different way, right? Like they frame it differently to try to make you feel better about it. But at the end of the day, like the ethics just aren't there, they're not aligned. So, anyway, all of that to say adoption is a very real thing, it is a very noble thing, it is a very beautiful thing, and it can bless your family in so many ways. If you don't follow Pastor Josh Howerton, he has three adopted kids, they struggled with infertility for years. He actually talks about how difficult that journey was, how hard they prayed, how much they cried, right? Like he gets it and he articulates it, and he still is like, my adopted kids are the biggest blessing of my entire life. And so it's it's just a reminder that like there are multiple paths, there are multiple ways that you can have kids when your heart is in the right place, and when you're um, you know, when you're coming from a place of like service to God as opposed to how can I serve my own selfish desires, right? Um again, it it is very selfless to want kids, but when you have to revert to extraordinary measures to make it happen, it does become a matter of like you need to check yourself for if there is any selfishness in you or you know what what's going on there. So, anyway, I have probably successfully ticked off like half of my listeners at this point. So, if that is you, I mean don't hesitate to like reach out and have a conversation about it as well. But I just felt like it was really necessary to put this in very sort of blunt, cut and dry terms because I think a lot of us don't know how to feel about it. And it took me a long time to form my opinion. But the more that I sat with God's character, the more that I sat with God's sovereignty, the more that I sat with just the the teachings of the Bible as a whole and the way that he operates, and you know, Christ calling us

Final Thoughts And Pastoral Prayer

SPEAKER_00 37:20

to die to self, to follow him. You know, there's just there's all these different arguments, and they all kind of point in the same direction that, in my opinion, just doesn't justify surrogacy, egg donation, IVF, or any of those other, like more invasive, advanced sciences and technologies to procreate. I think when you take the whenever you separate the the procreation from the unification of a couple, as far as you know, sexual intimacy and the way that God designed that to serve both purposes, things just start to get muddy. And that's my honest opinion, and I I may apologize for some of the delivery. Some of it was a bit rough, and at the same time, I'm not going to apologize for holding that stance because I'm not going to apologize for what's in the Bible. So, anyway, this was this was a rough one, but I hope that you, you know, got something out of it, even if it's just like the inspiration of like, you're right, we can't adopt. Like, I really hope that this does bless you in some way, that it does bring you closer to God in some way, that it helps you to just like lay it at his feet and just let him have it and leave it in his hands. You know, I do pray that this isn't just like a a downer for you, and that you do, you know, find a closer relationship with him if you are one of the people who is struggling with infertility. Like, I really pray that you know, you just lean into him, mind, body, and soul, and just let him do his will in your life, submit that fully, give it to him fully, and you know, he may surprise you. Like, there's no way to know for sure, but big things happen in our hearts and in our faith when we can really truly hand it over and and give it to God. So I pray that that happens for you. Thank you for tuning in, and I will catch you in the next episode. Bye for now.